JH: Well, you know, I would say this - the way that they're portraying Love makes me almost feel like she was put in the show to make Joe look a little better. He only kills people because he loves her so much." And, you know, it's just the self-justification process, right? And I think that that's why people are sort of not able to separate everything out because they're looking for those tiny, little redeeming qualities. If, as an audience member, you're actually inclined to like Joe, what does that say about you, that you like somebody who is a serial killer and disregards human life, just kills people willy nilly and doesn't seem to have any empathy? When you, as an audience member, feel drawn to this character, you are literally trying to justify your own liking of Joe. And so people are looking for that positive trait because it will make them feel better. And I think that there's a draw for people when they see somebody like this - they see that maybe they've come from a childhood of abuse or neglect, that maybe there's something redeeming to them that they maybe they just need to be saved. Many of them seemed like they really could be amazing people who could add to your life in a very positive way. But I would say that this is sort of like art imitating life, because for a lot of these again, going back to history, the true and literal murderers and serial killers among us, many of them were put together. So he's kind of scolding people, but at the same time, it's his great portrayal that makes people see him as a complex individual with lovable traits, right? And I think that that's obviously what the goal is of portraying a character like this, as they do want the audience to be conflicted, and that's what makes him an interesting character. That combination is what explodes into this type of personality that we sometimes see in serial murderers and other types of major criminals. But there's something about that combination of abuse and certain traits or temperaments that the person might be born with, or even biological wiring that is off. And that's not what happens to every single person who's ever been through abuse. This is what the layperson commonly referred to as a "psychopath" or "sociopath." But to a psychologist, when we look at someone like this, there is a diagnosis in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, that says this is what happens to a person, oftentimes, when they've grown up around abuse or when they've grown up neglected and they never receive treatment. And I think the one that is more prominent is antisocial personality disorder. Joe is somebody who has a combination of antisocial personality disorder traits and also borderline personality disorder traits. I can see the type of persona that Joe is being based on, and I would say that there are several aspects of this persona that I think would be very familiar to clinicians when we're thinking about diagnoses. Judy Ho: Well, given that Joe is a fictional character, I definitely can give you a diagnosis.
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